THE DOLLAR STRETCHER

"Living Better...For Less"


November 10, 1997
Volume 2, Number 45


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"The Dollar Stretcher" does not assume responsibility for advice given. All advice should be weighed against your own abilities and circumstances and applied accordingly. It is up to the reader to determine if advice is safe and suitable for their own situation.


In this issue:

Introduction

How We Got Out of Debt
by Patti Hutterli

Storage for Small Places
by Lisa Reid

Homemade Yogurt
by Sara Rands

After Bankruptcy
by Gary Foreman

Ask Bob: The Automotive Answer Guy?
90k Mile Maintenance?
by Bob DeP

Tips, Quips, Quotes & Questions

NEW ON THE WEB SITE THIS WEEK:

Do Laundry Balls Really Work? - Produce Review
http://www.stretcher.com/stories/971106a.htm

My Parents Want Us to Spend More
http://www.stretcher.com/stories/971106b.htm

Eat Better, Spend Less - Mary Jo's Hamburger and Barley Soup
by Julie Davis
http://www.stretcher.com/stories/971106c.htm

Advice from Mom - Safe Food Storage
by Rae Osenbaugh
http://www.stretcher.com/stories/971106dhtm

UPCOMING CHATS
http://www.talkcity.com
in the Finance Center at 8:30 to 9:30 U.S. Eastern Time

Nov 12th - Quick Cleaning
Nov 19th - A Happier Thanksgiving


Introduction
by Gary Foreman
gary@stretcher.com

Hello to all my Frugal Friends!

Just a short note to remind you to send in your Thanksgiving memories. I should have them posted for you next week.

We'll let you get directly to the good stuff. Don't forget to support our sponsors.

All the Best!
Gary


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How We Got Out of Debt
by Patti Hutterli
CPH001@aol.com

I noticed an article about someone in debt who wanted some tips to get out. This person is already doing the #1 thing he should start out with:
1. Ask for help and seek advice about your situation. Consumer Credit Counseling Services is a good place to start.
2. Make a plan to pay of your debts and write it down. My husband is fond of saying, "If it isn't in writing, it doesn't exist." If you put your plans in writing, you are more likely to follow through on your debt management.
3. As you pay off smaller debts, don't start paying less each month on your overall debt. Put that money towards another bill.
4. Keep track of all expenses for at least a month - you may discover some "holes" in your budget than can be plugged up.
5. Avoid further credit and debt while you are paying off your bills.
6. Keep track of your progress. Progress may seem very slow at first, especially if the debt load is very large. But it's a great feeling to whittle away at that list of creditors!
7. Be patient. You probably didn't get yourself into this situation overnight, so you won't get out of it that quick, either.
8. Be aware of your spending habits. Stick to the lessons you have learned about how you got into debt and how you're living to get out of it. You will probably discover along the way the things that are really important to you, and what is not so important to have anymore. Develop an awareness of the difference between "wants" and "needs."
9. Visit your local library. There are many resources available to give you the particulars on frugal and simple living. It's a great place to check out (for free at our library) magazines, compact discs, cassettes, etc. - one of the little holes that was in our budget before. We also can get computer programs to check out for three weeks at a time.
10. Make plans for life after debt. Don't go crazy and run up charge cards as soon as everything is paid off. The last thing you want to do is get yourself into deep debt again. You will probably find that you need to do some things that had to be deferred while you were paying off debts - for us it was catching up on dental work, and replacing some appliances. Stick to a spending plan; have a list of needs for everyone and for your house, so that you don't find yourself buying "wants" and not have money for the things you truly need. Put some of your new-found "extra money" into savings, college, or retirement funds. Create an emergency fund of at least three months take- home pay(more if you are self-employed).

I would enjoy hearing from anyone if this has been useful to you. Thanks.


We were once a family deeply in debt - not a lot due to charge cards, although that certainly contributed to the total. We still had part of a huge law school loan (3 years of law school + living expenses were borrowed), and medical bills not completely covered by insurance (we since have enrolled in an HMO which is wonderful on the pocketbook). Then our youngest child was diagnosed with autism, so I needed to leave a job; this meant around $1400.00 less per month to work with between salary and medical benefits. The hard part was family and friends who couldn't understand (and some still don't). They didn't know or ask how huge the medical bills, etc. were.


Storage for Small Places
by Lisa Reid
ThriftyLiving@compuserve.com

One of the choices our family has made is to live in a fairly small house. We say we "built" this house ourselves. What that really means is that we acted as the contractor. We also actually did quite a lot of the work ourselves (although, there, too, we had substantial help from family members). But we had an architect design it, and this is what we told her, "We want our house payment to be X dollars a month. Here's a list of the things we want in a house. Design us a house that has as many of these as possible within that budget." It turned out to be 1500 square feet. We think we got a fabulous little house this way and, five years, later, it is still a joy to live in.

Since we moved to this house from a rental that was a miniscule 700 square feet, we've had many years to learn to fit things into small spaces. Downscaling the number of square feet of housing a family budget must support is a real option for reducing expenses, especially when everything is organized in such a way that it looks good and makes the stored items easily accessible.

We've collected ideas for optimizing the use of space. Some are particularly useful in kids' rooms. Keep in mind that things look more ordered if they are behind a door or in a drawer. Open storage benefits from all being in containers, grouped together by similar colors, sizes and shapes. Collections are more pleasing displayed in one group, rather than dispersed throughout the house. You can store a lot in a little space without creating a cramped feeling if you leave some open space, for instance, on one wall or around a piece of furniture.

Containers. It's really unnecessary to buy containers. Great containers are thrown away every day. If you catch the produce guy or gal (go in the morning) at the grocery store, he or she will load you up with empty wooden produce boxes. Restaurants go through lots of food that come in gallon size glass jars and will usually give extras away. Copy stores often have extra boxes with lids that paper comes in.

Other free container ideas: large size cans, baby wipe containers, old suitcases and lunch boxes, fishing tackle or hardware organizers no longer in use, heavy-duty detergent boxes with handles and boxes from the liquor store that are divided into individual cubbies. Hanging. Hang hats in a row above a window. Put up a "clothesline" in your child's room and clothespin artwork or stuffed animals. If you have lots of extra hanging space in a closet, fill a large Ziploc with all the plastic dinosaurs or wrapping paper bows you are saving to reuse and clothespin it to a hanger.

Hidden storage space. Look around at all the little pieces of air space. Those little pieces, such as the one next to many refrigerators, don't really add to the overall feeling of spaciousness, but can provide a good deal of storage space. Even 4" shelves can hold canned goods, paperbacks, toilet paper, office supplies, tapes, CDs, and videos. Narrow shelves can be added to the inside of closet doors and between wall studs on interior walls.

Shelves above doors and windows are great and usually quite easy to build. My first office was a 2' X 4' space at the end of a hall. It had a window with a shelf above it, a bulletin board on one wall and hanging pocket files on the other. The desk was a laminated board cut to fit the space with a two-drawer file cabinet beneath.

Think, too, of storage furniture like benches and footstools with storage below the seat. And don't forget underbed space!

Double duty. Create space by using one thing for two jobs and getting rid of the extra. For instance, when Ivy has an overnight guest, we just take the futon out of our window seat and put it on Ivy's bedroom floor. This saves the space (and expense) of providing a second bed for guests in her room.

Is it really needed? How many extra dining chairs do you really need to buy and make room for when you can use the piano bench for overflow seating? If you only have overnight guests four times a year, do you need a special space just for them? Extra space and extra possessions have a monetary and a time cost - make sure they are a good value in your eyes.


This article is excerpted from PurseStrings newsletter, for parents who want to spend less and enjoy their families more, Lisa Reid, editor. She is also the author of Raising Kids With Just a Little Cash. For more information, write to ThriftyLiving@Compuserve.com.


Homemade Yogurt
by Sara Rands
saratony@juno.com

The best resource I have found about making homemade yogurt is in _The Tightwad Gazette III_. Amy Dacyczyn gives the how-tos & trouble shooting there.

Thanks to her instructions, and some help from my family, I've been successfully making yogurt for about 2 years now. You need a yogurt starter, milk, and a way to incubate it for 4-12 hours at about 110 degrees so the bacteria in the starter can grow to take over the whole jar.

Yogurt starter is either store-bought or homemade yogurt, or a freeze-dried starter you can buy at health-food stores. I've never checked into the freeze-dried starter; Amy reported it as expensive. But you can freeze yogurt to use for starter. Just put it in an ice-cube tray and store your 'yogurt cubes' in bags. That should be the 2-tbsp of yogurt you need to make a quart.

Milk: use whatever kind you want. Nonfat dry milk is usually cheapest. If you want thicker yogurt you can stir in a bit extra milk powder (1/3 cup per quart of yogurt).

To make a quart:
Stir together a quart of milk with 1/3 cup milk powder, if desired. If using frozen yogurt starter, set yogurt cubes out to thaw.
Heat milk to 180 degrees, stirring constantly. Use a candy thermometer to measure temperature.
Remove milk from heat; let cool to 115 degrees. This takes about 1 to 2 hours, depending on the temperature of the rest of the house.
Stir in 2 tbsp of yogurt starter. Mix thoroughly.
Pour the milk/yogurt mixture into sterilized jars. (Whenever I do it, it's a bit more than a quart, so have an extra jar ready.) Incubate for 4-12 hours, or until it is set (i.e. looks like yogurt, not milk). The longer you incubate, the more sour the yogurt will be. Refrigerate until cool.

How to incubate: There are lots of methods--see the book. I fill an ice chest with the hottest water the tap will give me, place the jars of yogurt in there, and close the ice chest. This is inexpensive, has worked in all of the rentals I've lived in, and doesn't require much storage space. If the water cools during incubation, as it might if it's cool in your home, refill with hot water.

Is it worth it? Yes, if you're at home for the amount of time required. It only takes about 15 minutes hands-on time, and the savings is considerable.

I've never done drinkable yogurt, so that will require some experimentation. Try not adding extra milk powder--that alone might be thin enough, since homemade yogurt seems thinner than store-bought. If not, try thinning the yogurt with more milk.

How to use yogurt:
Add sugar and fruit to yogurt for a snack. Plain yogurt can be used as a non-fat sour cream substitute--my family enjoys it on burritos and in casseroles. Add 1/3 cup plain yogurt to packaged macaroni and cheese, instead of milk and butter, for a tangy taste. Try adding some yogurt to mashed potatoes in place of some of the butter and milk. By draining the yogurt in cheesecloth through a colander, you can make "yogurt cheese," which has the consistency of cream cheese, and is good as a dip for chips or vegetables.

Not only is making yogurt thrifty, it's a science project about bacteria. Scalding the milk kills the "bad" bacteria that make milk go bad, and the yogurt starter introduces the "good" yogurt bacteria (also known as "active cultures"). The incubation gives the good bacteria the conditions they need to reproduce. The yogurt is done when the bacteria have grown throughout the yogurt.


Sara Rands started being a tightwad two years ago when she and her husband were newlywed students trying to survive on two small part-time incomes.


After Bankruptcy
by Gary Foreman
gary@stretcher.com

Dear Dollar Stretcher,
There is one subject I haven't seen a lot on and that is bankruptcy. I realize the first course of action should be Consumer Credit Counseling Services (CCCS) however they can not help all people. (personal experience speaking here) I would like to see something about "getting it (finances) together after bankruptcy".
Donna in Illinois.

Donna has asked a question that's affects more people every single day. In 1996 there were over 1.1 million non- business bankruptcies in the US. And another 98,000 in Canada. According to the American Bankruptcy Institute quarter two of 1997 set a record for new filings. More than that, the problem Donna faces is common to everyone who's working to repair their finances and credit.

Let's begin by understanding what the bankruptcy proceeding does. In it's simplest form, it allows the court to take some of your assets and sell them. The money made is then distributed among those who are owed money. Any balances owed after that are wiped away and you don't need to repay the remaining debts. Depending on where you live there are some assets and debts that are excluded from the process.

Now let's look at what it doesn't do. A bankruptcy court will not take your credit cards away. It will not, by itself, make it impossible for you to borrow money. But equally importantly, it doesn't guarantee that you can live on your income. Whether you're emerging from a bankruptcy proceeding or just trying to get caught up on your debts there are a number of things you need to do to get back on your financial feet.

Live on a Budget. That's an ugly word, I know. But the facts are simple. Unless you know for sure that you're not spending more than you're making you'll get in trouble again. And using a budget is not that painful. If you have a computer, there's software that makes it easy. Even if you have to do it using a calculator and paper it's not that hard. The real question is whether you'd rather live on a budget or have all the problems that come with living beyond your means.

Repairing Your Credit. The first item for many people after bankruptcy is seeing how fast they can get a credit card. But is that the right strategy? Let's look at your big credit picture. First, your credit record will not be spotless. You probably have a 'slow pay' history. The fact of your bankruptcy will be listed, too.

It's a good idea to check your credit files for accuracy. Your credit history is maintained by private companies called credit bureaus. They can legally report negative information about your credit history for seven years and bankruptcy information for 10 years.

Write to them and ask for a copy of your file. If you've been turned down for credit they must provide it free. Otherwise they will have a small charge. The largest are: TRW Consumer Assistance, P.O. Box 949, 660 N. Central Expressway, Allen, TX 75002 (1-800-682-7654) or Equifax Information Center, P.O. Box 740241, Atlanta, GA 30374-0241 (1-800-685-1111).

Once you have your report look for errors. If you've paid off a debt make sure that the report shows that. Were any of your accounts kept current? If so, make sure that information is included. Also check and make sure that negative reports more than seven years old are deleted. If you have a correction send it to the bureau in writing then check later to see that the changes were made.

Credit Repair Companies. As a rule avoid them. There's nothing that they can do that you can't do yourself. They cannot erase accurate negative information from your file. Some will promise to give you a new credit identity. That's illegal. Purposely hiding your credit history can be fraud! When they ask for your money before starting the process don't open your checkbook...flee instead!

Credit Cards and Borrowing. It's natural in our society to want to have a credit card at your disposal. And it's possible that you emerged from your financial problems with an old account still active. You may have elected to keep a credit card account out of the bankruptcy process. Then both the amount owed and the card will still be active.

It's also possible that you'll be able to get a new credit card after a bankruptcy. By law, you can't declare again for six years. To some companies that makes you a better credit risk than before. If you have a steady income many companies will consider your application.

What happens if you can't get a new credit card? Well, for most people the goal was to get a piece of plastic in their wallet or purse. So they'll pursue a 'secured card'. You'll be asked to deposit some money (sometimes as little as $200) into an account. Then you'll be issued a card with a credit limit equal to the amount that you've deposited. As you demonstrate your ability to repay the credit limit will be raised.

There are other things to consider with this type of account. You will be credited with no or very low interest on your deposit. Some accounts will also have an annual fee. Hardly good money management techniques.

But, do you really need a 'secured card'? You've already saved the money. Wouldn't you be better off putting the money in an interest bearing checking account? When you want to spend it just write a check. Some readers travel and need a credit card for hotels and rental cars. They should try for an unsecured card based on their income. For the rest of us the lure of a secured card could be more in the pride of plastic rather than practicality.

A New Attitude. The last, and most important element, of emerging from financial problems is creating a new attitude about money. Do you know why you got in debt? Are you a compulsive shopper who loves to cruise the malls? Maybe you can't stand to see your neighbor have a newer or fancier car, boat or TV than you have.

Whatever the reason, you need to understand how you got in trouble. Chances are you don't need a professional to do this. Just take a cold, hard, honest look at yourself. If you don't fix the root problem, you've only treated the symptoms. The disease that caused your problem is still with you and will cause even greater damage later.

Ultimately, getting it together after financial problems is a very personal matter. We'd all like to think that there was a quick and easy way out. But, at best, bankruptcy only provides a temporary fix. It took years to get into trouble. It will take years of living within your means to repair the damage and create a new credit history. Be encouraged, though. Every day people are changing their financial futures and living happier lives in the process. If you want to join them, you can, too!


If you have a suggestion for a future Dollar Stretcher column please email it to: gary@stretcher.com. Thanks!


Ask Bob: The Automotive Answer Guy?
90k Mile Maintenance?
by Bob DeP

Bob-
I have a 91 Acura Integra GS that is approaching 90,000 miles. I have done all the maintenance that Acura has recommended in their maintenance schedule which is every 7,500 mile. Needless to say, it has cost thousands of dollars. For the upcoming maintenance for 90,000 miles, the Acura service shop has recommended that I perform the following maintenance in addition to the 90,000 mile service. I wanted to get you opinion on if this is really all necessary.

1) 90,000 mile service $ 335.17
2) timing belt $ 260.94
3) belts $ 107.98
4) water pump (recommended) $ 363.16
5) exhaust $ 343.76

TOTAL $ 1411.01

I can see the need for doing items 1, 2, and 3 even though I really disagree with how much they want to charge me. My question is whether item 4 really needs to be done. They told me that it would save me a lot of labor cost to replace the water pump while they were changing the timing belt. I'm sure I can find a better price for item 5. Also, I have always taken my Acura to an Acura service center and I'm sure that they charge a premium because they are "Acura". Would another service center do just as good a job even though they aren't an authorized Acura service center or use genuine Acura parts? It has been a good little car and is in excellent condition inside and out and I plan on getting 200,000 miles out of it. I have a hard time justifying spending nearly $1,400 on maintenance though, when the car is probably worth at most $8,000. One thing I should have been doing from the very beginning is changing the oil ever 3,500 miles to extend the life of the engine so I will start doing that. Would appreciate any thoughts you might have on this.
--HM

Dear HM,
Well, the prices seems high and it does NOT look like they are giving you a break on the labor. In order to change the timing belt, the belts and all accessories must be removed. I do not have a labor book for Acura so I so not know what the book hour time is... personally, I would make a few calls first.... Try in this order.... call somewhere and ask how much to change the timing belt for your car.... then later call back and ask how much to have just the water pump changed, but don't tell them that you called before... then during the same call, ask how much to have both done... this way you can see if they are giving you a break or not... I would think not.... then try another dealership then try someplace like Pep Boy's or another reputable service center in your area... as far as the exhaust is concerned, is it rotted and falling apart.... does it look like you can get another year out of it? If so, then I would wait.

Basically all of these repairs are done on a preventative basis....they are probably fine know, but the might have a history of failing soon... but that may not be the case for your car...I have heard of timing belts lasting for over 150,000 miles and other breaking at 60,000 like clockwork.... The gamble is yours to take, but it might wind up costing you more if you wait. For instance, if the timing belt breaks, you run the risk of damaging the valves and the cylinder head. To replace that will cost significantly more. If you wait on the water pump, then you run the risk of other damage when the car over heats... As far as they belts are concerned, if they break, they wont cause any more damage unless your water pump is driven by them... then you run the same risk as above.... But my first advice would be to shop this around and do it in pieces... don't have them quote the whole job at once... this way you can see if you are getting a break on labor or not...

Good Luck!
Drive Safely!

Bob
The Auto Answer Guy?


Bob answers your auto questions. If you have a question for Bob just sent it to him at: AskBob@stretcher.com.


TIPS, QUIPS, QUOTES AND QUESTIONS

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Can You Help This Reader?
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Homemade Breakfast Bars

Does anyone have recipes for breakfast bars or cookies that are nutritious, and that my children will like? Getting them to eat in the morning is always a chore, and I refuse to buy them toaster pastries and such. I would like ideas for any breakfasts that are nutritious, taste good to kids, and ideally, that can be made up in bulk ahead of time. Thank you.
- JT

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Can You Help This Reader?
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Removing Garlic Odor

I moved into a duplex and the previous tenant had some rotting garlic under the sink. The odor has gone into the wood cabinetry under the sink and I can't seem to get it out. Any suggestions?
--Cindy

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Can You Help This Reader?
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Field Mice

I live on one acre in the country and am having big problems with field mice. I have trapped 20 in the last three weeks and they are driving me crazy. Any suggestions on how to get rid of the critters? Can't have a cat, the dog won't allow it! What about poisons? Won't they die in the house (yuck!) Any suggestions welcome.
--Dawn.

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Laundry Disks: A Scam

I, too, was almost lured into buying these ceramic laundry discs. After much research, I found information on the web about them. Although the discs are still very widely available, mainly through various catalogs, **they are a scam**. Their inventor, Paul Adams--a.k.a. Paul Jackson, Paul Rabbett, and Paul Johnson, pled guilty to related charges in New Zealand, and was fined $22,500 (source: The Press On-Line, Wed. Sept. 25, 1996). My personal tips for laundry are: 1. Use about 1/4 the detergent recommended; and 2. Don't use fabric softener every time--only use it occasionally. Instead, use a little white vinegar in the rinse cycle. Your clothes will be cleaner and you will save money too!
--Mrs. TW

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Laundry Disks: "Works Fine"

I've used a laundry disk that works on the same principle. It works just fine. Took out stains, eliminated odors and best of all, I didn't have to worry about spilling any. I would recommend this to everyone but most especially for people that are allergic to detergent or just have sensitive skin. Not to mention it keeps from polluting the water supply.
--Candy

editor's note: these two responses are only a sample of what came in. Lots of people on both sides. We even had a few that talked about automatic dispensers. One reader even cited a test that showed that detergent didn't really do any good, either. You'll need to make up your own mind on this one. All the responses that came in are posted at http://www.stretcher.com/stories/971106a.htm.

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Pressure from Unfrugal Parents

I experienced a similar situation with my parents. My parents worked hard and struggled for many years and now live very comfortably. They did not want me or my children to experience the struggle and hardships they had endured. They wanted us to have everything and could not understand when I chose to lead a very simple and frugal lifestyle. I tried several everything to make them understand but nothing worked. They made me feel guilty and tried to pressure me into placing my sons in private schools, etc. In the end I sat them down and explained that I loved them for trying to protect my sons and I but that I wanted my sons to have everything I had been given. I also explained to them that when I had experienced those struggles with them I felt very close to them and I appreciated the little extras that much more. They no longer pressure me and just the other day my mother told me she is proud of the way I am raising my children and how much they appreciate what they have.
--P.

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If Mom & Dad Want to Spend
the Money...Let Them!

I'm writing in response to the "here's a switch" dilemma... my parents still suffer through this. They think our children are going without too much... they had the same ideas about our oldest needing pre-school (which isn't cheap)... I simply told them that I did lots of things with the children at home, but if THEY felt it was really needed (and the parents don't mind) then suggest they pay for it. That's exactly what my parents did... my son enjoyed it, however, they didn't see the same need for my following 2 sons... they learned their own lesson! Now, when they make me feel guilty about having wants (since they aren't really needs) I let them know that they are free to contribute and that I'm sure the kids won't mind.
Hope this helps!
Marja

editor's note: other neat answers to this question can be found at http://www.stretcher.com/stories/971106b.htm. Thanks to everyone who helped!

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Pressure Cooker Cookbook

My favorite pressure cooker cookbook is Great Vegetarian Cooking Under Pressure by Lorna Sass. The recipes are quick, economical, and delicious. If you can't find a copy at a used bookstore or a yardsale (I know that I would never part with my copy) you might be interested to know that it is available at Amazon.com for 30% off.
--Kimberly

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Another Pressure Cooker Book

A number of years ago, I came across the only copy I have ever seen on this subject. The title of this book is "Cooking Under Pressure" by Lorna J. Sass. The publisher is William Morrow and Company, Inc. New York. This book was first published in 1989.
Hope this helps your readers.
Peace
Linda E. D.

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Cheap Health Insurance
Not the Only Benefit

I just have a suggestion here for obtaining cheap health insurance. I am a student at the University of Wisconsin, and here at least students are eligible for very cheap health insurance. As a grad student, one only has to take (I think) 3 credits per semester. Often, night classes will meet for 3 hours, one night a week, which means that one can take one class and be eligible. Currently, I am in law school and will graduate in May, but am considering being a career part-time grad student in other departments in order to live in cheap graduate family housing (the limit for that is 8 years) and obtain cheap health insurance (I want to be a solo practitioner and with preexisting conditions insurance will otherwise be very expensive for me). Of course, the extra education won't hurt me, either!

Readers of Dollar Stretcher could contact their local college or university to get the low-down on insurance costs, minimum credits, night courses offered, and so on.
--Andrea B

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Part Time, At Home Work

There is an enormous demand for part time at-home word/data processors. Many large companies are building web sites for inter-company use; this involves the scanning and proofing of file cabinets full of documents, and sometimes the rather simple process of HTML (see aolpress site for information on HTML). Stay-at-home, part-time, temporary workers cost an employer ZERO overhead, so we are a great investment for a company. Start by searching through the phone book of a large city near you and call companies that advertise "Data Conversion" services. See if they could use your help.
--J.

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Dry Cleaning Solution Problem

A while back I read that Ivory Flakes could be used to cold wash items that are labeled dry clean. I tried this method and to my horror shrunk a wool jacket and a rayon blend jacket. Though the rayon blend is back to its proper size thanks to our local cleaners, the wool jacket is now a bit small. This is just a warning to your readers to be careful of home washing items that have a dry clean label. At least I got the wool jacket at a garage sale and don't feel like too much was lost...
--Ann


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